Walter Sergeant's EPT3

First Run 8-26-09


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Took the truck around the neighborhood and to the fitness center. On the way there it dawned on me a great sense of familiarity. That was the great similarity of the one ride that I was fortunate to have in an EV-1 in Phoenix. The same "brief" sense of quiet acceleration and the low hum/whine of the vehicle. It was fantastic! Thanks again for all of the thought and energy that you have and are putting into this cause. I will work hard to be an ambassador in this part of the country. Walt 8/28
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Walter Sergeant's Pre-Conversion EPT3


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Results are:
Curb wt. "steer axle" = 2040 lbs;
Front GAWR = 2510
Curb wt. drive axle = 1400 lbs;
Reear GAWR = 2600
Curb wt. = 3440
GVWR 1440
Payload = 1400 before conversion

That is without me being inside and just under 1/4 tank of gas. I am some what surprised at the distribution, though no background to comment. They have a split scale, so straddling it was easy. Total cost $8.50.

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EPT3 Diary


February 18, 2009
The differences between the 1999 EPT2 and the 2001 EPT3 have cause some bumps in the road, but Walt and the Team at the HTHS have found good solid well fit solutions. The results are impressive.
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Walt is dicovering differences in the 2001 frame when compared to the 1999 frame of EPT2. This is resulting in the need for some creative redesign.

1) There is a cross member below the steering stuff. Your approach would require approximately a 6" extension to the base to reach far enough to put that one bolt through. Also the holes looked different than yours. In the first pic, upper left, next to the Canadian ring you can see where the motor mount was attached. Under the yellow strap is the member that you used to bolt the ring base to with one bolt. The pic below it has a ruler that indicates the distance from the front edge of the screen to where that cross member you used begins and is approximately 3''. So to follow that approach would require at least a 5 or 6 inch extension where by you were able to reach with 1". The bottom right pic taken looking up, in this series show the holes in the existing cross member though I didn't get the camera centered. You can see a hole in the top of the member.
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2) They used 3/8" X 3" stock to form the support piece. The pics show its form. The motor ring base sits in the bottom of the base. They marked and drilled the same holes so that it will be bolted on to the support piece. When I left, they had finished welding, were cleaning up their welds, will sand blast and recommended a coat of paint to keep the welds from rusting. Spoke to Monte about spraying it when they bring it over. The first 2 pics show the frame that was fabricated. It starts with a "U" shape with wings that align with the old motor mounts were located. They are NOT symmetrical. They were marked and spot welded on site. You can see the bottom of the Canadian ring held in place with C clamps in the 3rd pic. the fourth pic shows how the wing was fabricated. The big piece was spot welded on site with the brace added and the welding completed. This is the right side looking down. The left side pic didn't turn out but the process was the same. Lastly, they marked the holes in the Canadian btm, then drilled same in the U shaped steel.

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3) The battery rack is to be worked on tomorrow and perhaps finished. I foresee a problem here in how to attach if the no weld, no drilling into the frame is to be observed. Those pics aren't the best but don't see any way to avoid it. But then there is tomorrow. These next two pics are looking to the passenger side and the driver side of the holes in the frame where the battery rack would bee attached. The red pieces are on the front side. . Walt 1/29

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The motor/transmission is in the process of being installed. Need a new transmission mount as the old one was cracked, picked up one at Advanced Auto Parts. Went to the store, bought some "conduit lubricant" for the install of the cables. A couple of pics show the removal of heavy rusted bed. Metal is on hand to weld in place. Hope springs eternal. Walt 1/26

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January 11th - 23rd

Forgot to mention that the pricing.
12 -8A4D/T975 L&G/MARINE SS, BATT. SEALED DEKA @ $372.56    $4,470.72
STATE POLLUTION FEE                         12 @ $1.50          18.00
SUB TOTAL                                                   $4,488.72
TAX                                                            269.32

GRAND TOTAL                                                  $4,758.04

DIVIDED BY 12 = 396.503 EACH

WALT 1/16		
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Here's some pics taken of the new batteries. I attempted to align the  
camera with the edges to give an accurate dimension record. The school  
is on 1/2 day sessions yesterday, today and off next Mon. & Tue. No  
new progress to report. Monte has been out sick all week.  Walt 1/16

#14 - LENGTH OF 3 BATTERIES MEASURED AT THE BOTTOM (25.5")
#15 - LENGTH OF 3 BATTERIES MEASURED AT THE TOP (25.5")
#16 - LENGTH OF 1 BATTERY MEASURED AT THE TOP (19.75")
#17 - HEIGHT OF BATTERY TO TOP OF CASE ONLY(8 5/8"), EXCLUDES THE CAP (8 7/8")
#18 - BATTERY LABEL

All batteries have an embossed coding on the side indicating date of  
mfg, lot #, and an individual number. The three that I picked up are #  
35, 37, & 40 of the lot.
WALT 1/16
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HERE'S WHAT WE ARE GOING WITH. WILL MOUNT EITHER ON TOP OF DASH OR ON A BRACKET ABOVE THE VENT IN THE CENTER OF THE CONSOLE. WALT 12/15
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A few pics taken this week. W 12/11


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A second search (for a cross member) of the salvage yards around Ft.M. proved fruitless.

Hope you are more successful. Walt 12/10


 

 

Walt,

 

One thing I forgot to mention. I used six thumb screw type bolts. There is not a lot of room under the table in the little frame for bolt heads. The flat side of the thumb screw come up through the table from the bottom. They are so clos to the frame, they cant spin as you tighten the bolts on the top.

 

Cheers,

Al Lococo

 

 


Walt,

 

See July 22, October 30, October 27, November 5.

 

An aluminum fraame is fastened to the heat sink. Three holes re drilled in this listtle frame on each side. The controller rests on top of the heat sink and the angle brackets are bolted to the frame and the table through thewse three holess on each side.

 

The little frame may be bolted rivited or welded to the heat sink. Mine is bolted. The heat sink and frame assmebly is droped throught the hole in the table. The heat sink and controller are greased and the controller is placed on the heat sink it is then bolted together through the table.

 

Things to remember. This is the final step. The table frame must be welded before the acryllic can be inserted. The heat sink assembly and controller can only be installed after the final table assembly. The table should be trial fit under the hood before final component mounting on the table.

 

Once the controller is installed, all the other compenents can be mounted and wired. The finisted table top with all components installed weights about 65 pounds. I used and engine hoist to set it in place under the hood.

 

Cheers,

Al Lococo

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Phone call from Walt about Heat Sink.

 

 


 

FINALLY, controller is due here on 12/8, Monday. Batteries just

arrived in Bonita Springs.

We will get this project together yet. For your information I will be

spending the holidays

with our Grand Rapids, MI family from 12/18 - 1/06. Monte, I will

there on Monday, 12/8.

Walt 12/5


 

Below is the prologue to a long list of corrections to the airing Document Walt provided. Rather than expse a lot of errors here, I will just say thanks to Walt for his contribution to the quality and completeness of this documentation effort. Walt is the guinea pig for this documentation. Hopefully it will be easier for whoever follows us.

 

Al Lococo


 

Excellent additions, we THANK you for all of this effort! All of this is at least second hand to you probably, but us novices, it is a god send to say the least!

Now, I found a few misspellings, etc. that I corrected on the copy attached.

. . .

Again THANKS so much for all you effort to support the overall effort and this design in particular.

Walt 11/23


 

I read you loud and clear. You have refreshed my memory having read

about the breaking in/conditioning process in several documents. Still

awaiting shipment of the controller. Walt 11/23


Walt,

 

In looking at Monte's publicity I was surprised to see that your car will be traveling 60 miles at 80 miles per hour on a single charge.

 

This says something to me about mindset and what people think is important.

 

One of the mistakes often made with new EV's, is to take them out for the first time to see how far they will go. This is serious error.

 

The batteries need to be conditioned according to a break-in regimen.

 

 

There may othe other temptations that should be avoided, such as taking two or three batteries and taking a little test drive before everything is finished. Any spin up test should be done with the 12 volt accessory battery and should be short followed by charging the accessory battery.

 

The traction battery (pack) is a unit consisting of several elements (12 Volt batteries). These batteries must not be discharged individually for any purpose.

 

A fully charged 12 Volt AGM battery should be 13.08 volts. On arrival, all twelve batteries should be at this voltage or slightly lower. Critical is that each battery be within .02 volts of each other.

 

Once the batteries and equalizers are installed, they should stand for a couple of hours to balance voltages so that they are all the same.

 

The first test sould be two or three miles, less than five. On return, the truck should sit for a couple of hour to equalize. You can check this with a volt meter. The truck should then be fully charged.

 

Subsequent trips should add a couple of miles at a timeom successuve trips. On return from each trip, equalize, then fully charge.

 

The truck should never be driven over 40 miles. The truck should neveer be driven until it won't go any further, just to see how far it will go. It won't go 60 miles.

 

Aggressive accelleration should also be avoided. Rapid discharge can be as bad as excessively deep discharging. To the guy who doesn't have to pay to replace the batteries, it might be fun to see how fast it will go, but it is not good for the batteries. The car can't go 80 miles an hour. Trying, will take a heavy toll on the batteries and 80 mph will not be achieved. The truck will cruise very well at 49 mph. It is capable of 50 or 55 mph with some effort. I believe that my attempt too exceed 60 mph was the beginning of the end for my batteries.

 

The problem with abusive driving is that the residual affect will not be evident immediately. You might wnat to keeep track of odometer readings and maybe take the keys during the final stages.

 

Cheers,

Al Lococo


 

 

http://www.abc-7.com/articles/readnews.asp?articleid=23315&z=18

Not too much here. My neighbor asked me about it. I couldn't find any video with it.

Walt 11/22


 

 

Walt,

 

You are good. The first stage in the converter is a full wave bridge rectifier which converts AC to DC. If you put DC in it just goes around one side of the bridge exclusively, doesn't need rectifying. It is an AC - DDC Device.

 

 

The following is from IOTA Tech:

----------------------------------------------- IOTA Start

Many ev (electric vehicle) owners have been looking for a way to charge 12 volt d.c.

batteries from their high voltage vehicle battery bank.

 

 

The following is from IOTA Engineering regarding using the DLS battery chargers from

a high voltage direct current source:

 

 

From: Jeff Young [mailto:jyoung@iotaengineering.com]

Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:26 PM

To: Mariette Francis

Subject: Re: question [DC operation of DLS units]

 

 

The DLS-45 and DLS-55 will not produce full output power with less than 130Vdc on the input and

will be limited to an output voltage of 13.6Vdc; an increase of the input voltage (to 136Vdc) would be

required to attain full output power with the DV (dual voltage) jack installed.

The DLS-45 and DLS-55 will operate at less than 130Vdc, but at a limited capability. At 96Vdc,

the output will remain in regulation up to ~ Adc. Above ~ Adc load, the output voltage will decrease

linearly until the load current reaches ~1Adc (Vout = ~10Vdc). Above 1Adc, the output should maintain

an output voltage of 9 -10Vdc.

The DLS-30 (Series M) also has limited operation at lower input voltages. At 96Vdc, the Series M can

sustain normal float voltages out to ~20Adc.

Above 20Adc, the output voltage decreases linearly to ~10Vdc at 30A output.

Jeff Young - Power Products Engineer

jyoung@iotaengineering.com

IOTA Engineering, L.L.C.

Tel - 520-294-3292

Fax - 520-573-2934

 

 

As of today, 1/24/07, John Kehm told me on the telephone that the highest d.c. input voltage

for the DLS-30M, DLS-45 and DLS-55 is 190 volt d.c.

------------------------------------------------------------ IOTA End

 

Cheers,

Al Lococo


 

Rec'd DC-DC converter, same as yours. http://www.evparts.com/prod-DC2460.htm

The web page shows: DC-DC Converter, Iota 30 amp, 130-190 VDC in, 12

VDC out

Yet the label indicates Input voltage 108-132 VAC

 

It reads as a converter/charger. What am I missing? Walt 11/21


 

 

Walt,

 

I have placed the new wiring document on the web, although it is not yet

complete. It is in the Document List for my truck.

 

http://www.evprogress.org/Wiring%20Instructions.doc

 

Cheers,

Al Lococo


 

 

Walt,

 

I tried to find a mechanical drawing for the Deka 8A4DM, no luck. I am

pretty sure height includes protrusions like posts and vent caps.

 

I have a gate across the motor side of the rack. It needs to pass above or

below the vent caps on your batteries. I don't have these on my batteries.

 

My batteries weigh 120 pounds. I weighed them. If yours are 129 pounds,

they may be larger in some dimension. Probably height. I believe these

manufacturers are most faithful to the formats battery foot print, taking

some liberties with the height.

 

In any case, these dimensions are critical. I had the batteries before I

made the rack. So I was able to make sure they fit. The original spec

sheet hat larger dimensions than what I actually got. The stated weight was

132 pounds and turned out to be only 120.

 

About the significance of the battery rack drawing. It was important for me

to communicate with the welder and to organize for myself what I wanted. At

the time I had no pictures to show him.

 

The drawing now is useful, but we do have photographs of the finished

product. Most welders work from very rough sketches. Once you know the

size of your batteries, the dimensions and the pictures may be enough.

 

Cheers,

Al Lococo


 

Not too legible. 4D - 20.75 X 8.5 X 10. I don't have one here to

measure. I believe that this is the std. for the 4D. I will measure

the one that I borrowed from East Penn, though I don't know if it is

exactly the same btry.

 

Walt 11/15


 

 

Walt,

 

That dimension should be the height of the battery, should it not?

Yes it should.

 

That would be 10" not the width of the battery @ 8.5". What's say?

You are right to be cautious. Adjustments were made to both the length and

the width.

 

This is hard to answer. You are making assertions here that were not true

for me. I just went out and measured the batteries. They are slightly less

than 8 inches wide and under 8.5 inches high. This height dimension ignores

the height of the "L" posts.

 

The batteries are slightly larger at the top than the bottom.

 

Here is a quote from October 3, 2007:

"Battery is slightly too big to drop all the way in at center. Won't go in

at all at ends. "

 

The lesson to pay attention to here is that for me this was a processes of

trial and error.

 

I would like to see the spec sheet for your batteries. If the batteries are

truly 8.5 inches wide you are on the border of not fitting. You only have

about 26 inches between the frame rails and you need room for the steel

frame.

 

Cheers,

Al Lococo


 

 

UPON further examination: The "LOOKING DOWN" view indicates a 8.5"

width. That dimension should be the height of the battery, should it

not? That would be 10" not the width of the battery @ 8.5". What's

say? Walt 11/15


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Walt,

 

Sorry about that.

 

The photo copies were made before I went to the welder. The drawing I gave

to the welder was modified after the photo copies were made.

 

I am attaching a new photo of the modified drawing. You can see it was

erased.

 

I have also included a photo of the finished rack. Several details are not

on the drawing. The drawing is really just the base.

 

There are three supports on each end. They are welded on the outboard side

of the rack. They are fastened to the angle resting on top of the frame.

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The center one has an end welded on it with a hole in it for the threaded

rod, which holds the square tube or angle on top of the batteries, to hold

them down.

 

In each corner, is a shorter piece which holds the gate on the front and the

back. The side closest to the condenser can be welded. Mine is bolted.

The front gate should be bolted so it can be removed. The gates at the

front and the back should be flat, not angle. In the picture the front gate

is not in place.

 

My three inch flat piece was an after thought. You can weld yours in.

 

The gate posts are five inches long. The center posts are 14 inches long.

 

I have updated the wiring document.

http://www.evprogress.org/Wiring%20Instructions.doc

 

Cheers,

Al Lococo


 


 

Having some vision problems looking at your sketch (the one you gave

Monte) and comparing it to the pics. What's throwing me off is on the

"front view, the 2-5/8" offset within the body. Not the width of

"frame". I don't see that position on picture. I'm looking at the

distance the red oval indicates. There is no angle in the pic that

corresponds to the right side of the oval. Am I off base? To me the

pics look o.k. but not the sketch. Walt 11/14


 

Apparently we have the same anvil. The lugs that I have (the wrong

ones) don't have any red lines. As the old addage goes, one of Al's

pictures is worth a thousand words". isn't that how it goes! THANKS.

Walt 11/14


If you examine it, you will see the "V" shape on the opposite side from the

punch. This has the effect of changing the cylindrical shape to a three

sided angular shank with a compression punch on one side. It works well.

 

Get the punch on the center red line.

 

Cheers,

Al Lococo

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Looking over the anvil it appears that it will "dent" one side. Having

never used one of these, was yours similar? I imagine that the lugs

will just fit inside. The barrel has markings on it. Walt 11/14

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Thanks for the pics. Took all of the bolts necessary for the adapter plate.

They were busy cleaning up for the open house this Saturday. No

progress to report. Walt 11/13



Walt,

 

Here are some pictures for comparison purposes.

 

Cheers,

Al Lococo

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Report of minor progress. I was up at the school today. What has taken place is as follows:

motor cavity pressured washed, nothing else. I brought the motor mount there and we attempted to dry fit the motor and adapter plate. Found two holes not drilled. Recall being told by EVBlue that one of his tool broke and that he was sending it as is. Should be no problem as they have bolted the spacer (I called it a gasket) onto the plate and will drill the appropriate remaining holes. I'll pick up bolts needed from Lowes tomorrow and deliver them. No progress on the battery rack.

So we discussed how to make it happen. A new student was involved because of past experience and we went at it. I ordered two 20' pieces of steel, one 1/8" X 1-1/2 strip bar @ $9.50 and the other 1-1/4" X 1-1/4" X 1/8" angle @ 18.81 for a total of 30.63 delivered (YES !). The outfit delivers steel to the welding department @ school and will deliver tomorrow morning Thursday. That is less $ than @ Lowes.

They are going to touch up the bed area and motor cavity with paint. I am enlargening some pictures to give a better view to them. They weren't able to do it on their WindowsXP due to lack of experience. I showed them how, but.... Expect btry chgr, controller and throttle lever to be arriving this week, followed the the powercheqs.

You should have rec'd pic from school paper abt EPT3 and open house. Attached a some I shot this a.m. Olive has made some progress.

Walt 11/12

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Walt,

There may be climates, such as Canada, where heat is not a problem and in the winter, insulation may have benefit.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


NO, I hadn't. Went to school yesterday. They pushed the truck in and then out again to pressure wash the front. Dropped off the matt and the smaller matt for the battery protection. Rec'd your notes on not putting material between the batteries. I had read somewhere that someone did. Also, acknowledge your comments on stranded VS solid wire. Again, thanks for your consideration of these small questions.

Walt 11/4


Walt, You may have already seen this.

http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/Universal-Dual-Gauge-Console-Dash-Pod.aspx

I find the gauges on the pillar satisfactory. I can seee the with less eye movement than I need for the side view mirror. You may like the pod in the link better. It also comes in a thre pod unit. I am working on an ammeter and volt metere for the accessory battery. I think the ammeter is particularly important.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


Walt,

I missed your second question. No, the batteries are designed such that the tops are larger than the bottoms. When the tops are touching there is a half inch or so between each battery. This allows some air circulation. I would be careful about any material between the batteries that restricts air flow.

Your batteries may be different.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


Walt,

I don't agree with solid. This is not an automotive practice for good reasons.

Safety, strength (resistance to vibration) and flexibility. Solid wires can break, if you have only one strand, the connection is lost or you have a high resistance intermittent one.

Stranded copper wire is much more flexible and suited to the type if routing required in a car. Imagine pulling a single strand solid copper #10 wire through that conduit.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


You didn't state whether you used solid or stranded wire, I think solid?

Did you put anything in between each battery?

Walt 11/3


THANKS for the wire information. I was just going through the list of purchases. Have everything on order save the vacuum equipment, will do that tomorrow. Some of the stuff is still two weeks away but I think that will be just right. As you stated, this won't be done in a day.

I am going to work out mounting the gauges differently than you in placing them just above the air vent in the middle of the dash. If it works, it presents good eye contacy without too much head movement. Intend to have the metal slip in behind the piece that outlines that center area.

Battery purchase is the next big last purchase. The estimate is three weeks for delivery and that would put it in and around Thanksgiving or the first of December. Hope to make it up to school tomorrow morning to see what progress is being made. Take some pics. They had a publicity piece in a paper which I will attempt to get a copy of and send to you for inclusion in the EPT3 diary.

Walt 11/2


Walt,

You have asked on more than one occasion about wiring and I have never given you a considered answer.

I ordered some wire from evsource avfollows:

http://www.evsource.com/tls_cable.php

I bought 50 feet of #14 AWG in red, 50 feet of #14 AWG in black, 50 feet of #14 AWG in white, 50 feet of #110 AWG in black, 50 feet of #110 AWG in red.

I offer this as a record of what I did, not what I recommend.

I never made much use of this wire. It is described as tinned wire. It is a silver color. I don't know if it is copper or aluminum. My intention was to use the #10 for charger leads in red and black. These have to carry 10 amps at voltages approaching close to 200 volts. The #14 was for other smaller loads.

It turns out that there is a lot of wire available which was cut from the harness in a variety of gauges and colors. I made some use of this. I also bought copper wire from Lowes to replace my first purchase.

The considerations are, particularly when wiring the small relay panel, heavy #14 wire is cumbersome and inflexible. I have attached a table. These relays draw very little current. So, for the coil wire, something as small as #24 would work. There are other things though like the vacuum pump that draw some current (7 or more amps under load).

The problem is getting a variety of colors in appropriate lengths. Lowes is good at this because they sell wire by the foot. Although I couldn't get yellow. I wanted to have a long yellow wire to run from the equalizer on battery number 3 in the front to the number 4 battery in the rear. I had to settle for green.

I used black for negative, red for positive, white for ground returns from component like the ac clutch. I also made use of the oxygen sensor connectors.

In summary, use #10 for the charger lines, both 12 volt and 144 volt. Use number 14 for the big items like vacuum pump. Very short runs of very low current use #20 - #24 giving consideration to reasonable flexibility with the heaviest gauge possible.
Wire gauge.jpg
Wire gauge.jpg

The longer the run the heavier the wire. The higher the current the heavier the wire. I would lean towards heavy. In a failing overload condition, you want the fuse to blow before the wire burns up.

I wish I could give you a list of every wire and its length and color, but the wiring job is a little bit of a form of artistic exression. You draw from the pallet the color gauge and length apropriate to the moment.

Something I have never heard is the state of the vehicle wiring after the removal of the engine. Are all the loose ends labeled? There are several key points that need to be marked and saved. I would be interested in seeing some pictures if the state of the harness under the hood and at the gas tank location. The fuel gauge and inertia switch are in the rear. Things like key on and start are under the hood.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


Walt,

I know this is not important now, but at some point LED running Lights may be useful.

http://www.evprogress.org/LED%20Flasher/LED%20Bulb%20and%20Flasher%20Replacement.htm

Thanks for your input on this project.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


These is only one pre-charge resistor. http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/50WM175

Cheers,
Al Lococo


Follow up. On #31 These are pre-charge resistor. Need only one (1) ? I used the wrong link as I have already ordered two (2) contactors. >

Walt 10/21


Rec'd call from Wayne this aft. Adapter is done and should have it by the weekend. That should pique some interest and enthusiasm.

walt 10/20


Walt,

What can I say? I have had no problems with the brakes, and I have no experience with the alternative.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


I found an alternate from the one you used, small savings. From Electro Automotive: Thought? http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/vacuum.shtml?

walt 10/20


Walt,

> Your parts list Items: >

> #31 - for contactor? only one (1) QTY. req'd?
http://www.evparts.com/prod-SL2558.htm
You need two of these, one key on (Bypass) and one throttle (Main) contactor.

> > #34 - 10-MCM - DIODES,where used? order qty 10?
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/FR304
I think ten is cutting it close. I had to go back and get more. Try 20.">

>

> #35 - Auto relay, placement? order qty 6?
If I remember correctly, I am using 3 spst relays.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/26-533
and one spdt relay for the brake relay.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=330-073
> >

Cheers,
Al Lococo


Your parts list Items:

#31 - for contactor? only one (1) QTY. req'd?

#34 - 10-MCM - DIODES,where used? order qty 10?

#35 - Auto relay, placement? order qty 6?

walt 10/20


Walt,

For completeness I have attached below a note I sent you on 9/23.

I am not suggesting you use this meter. http://www.sendec-products.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=110&Itemid=136

But, perhaps, you could use this sensor. See attached photo. This technique would put two magnets on the air conditioner pulley.

rotating_shaft_3_800x600.jpg
rotating_shaft_3_800x600.jpg

Has Monte isolated and saved the Tach sender from the ICE? What does it look like, how does it work? Does Monte Know? Is it a Hall Effect device. Does it use magnets to detect rotation? How many? You might be able to play with this using an electric drill to see if you can get the tach to work.

If push comes to shove, the Air Conditioner is more important than the tach. If the tach wire has been properly isolated and saved the problem can be understood and solved later. The front of the pulley is accessible from underneath the vehicle.

To answer your question about the tach senders you listed, they are fine if they don't interfere with the A/C. I mention this other approach because I think it is compatible with the A/C pulley.

Cheers,
Al Lococo
----- Origial Message --------------
Walt,

I have no experience to give you here, but there is a sensor on the front of the engine for this. Monte will know how to save this connection. I don't know if the sender can be adapted to the front shaft on the motor, but something should be able to worked out.

Talk to Monte and his crew to see what they say. The three key points are the wiring and the sender and adapting it to the motor.

Let me know what they think the problems are that they can't handle and I will try to help. Whatever they do with the front shaft, has to be compatible with the Air Conditioning Compressor pulley unless you go to an electric compressor.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


KNOW OF ANY WAY TO TIE EXISTING '01 TACH to the WarP? I found this
at: http://www.evsource.com/tls_motor_accessories.php
Appear though it encompasses the shaft of the WarP. Walt 10/20

walt 10/20


Walt,

I will annotate your note with answers.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter & Olive Sergeant" <walter@sergeant.com>
To: "AL & DIANE LOCOCO" <al@lococo.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 2:34 PM
Subject: Some more questions

Let me start by stating my appreciating your support.  I have started 
a cross index, subject matter vs date in the diary for my quick 
reference. I dislike attempting to remember where is saw information, 
thumbing through page after page.
 
Good work!

I went to Lowes yesterday and purchased the conduit material save on 
item you have listed. The list indicates two couplings, one Sch40 and 
one std PVC. I purchased on as I was unable to see where the second 
one is used. Let's see if I have the correct order. The female adapter 
fits down through the hole in the bed, followed by one 45 then a 90, 
then the straight long piece, the std. coupling, then by a 45 and a 
90 up in the front motor compartment. So where is the second coupling 
fit it?
I guess I am not sure about the second adapter.  I may have been considering it for the end of the conduit under the hood.  When I made the parts list, I didn't consider how I used the parts, just what I purchased.
 
The key thing to remember here is the a 45 and a 90 are used on each end, and you have to shorten both 90 degree pieces.  This whole thing is a force fit.  There may be some trial and error.
 
I looked around the garage and found two pieces of conduit material.  I have attached a picture of them. 

IMG_4065.JPG
IMG_4065.JPG
I believe the larger piece was cut from the front 90 degree piece on the narrow end of the curve (2 inches).  The short piece comes from the wide end of the rear 90 degree piece (7/8 inch).  This is a pretty good guess, but it is a guess.  Have them do some measurments of their own to verify.  If it doesn't work the first time, do it over. 


Curtis controller/heat sink - is there a paste req'd between the 
surfaces?
 
Yes, heat sink compound is absolutely required.
 
http://shop.willyselectronics.com/browse.cfm/4,7782.html


Battery connections - cable lug to btry post - 10/17/07 use 1-1/4" 
stainless bolts, still a good size? Use flat & lock washers?  Are the 
connections assembled dry?
 
Assuming your batteries have the L terminal with 3/8 inch hole, you need 24 1-1/4" 5/16" bolts and 48 nuts.  A flat washer should go between the bolt head and the lead post.  the lug side of the post should be coated with noalox.  The lug should be slid onto the bolt.  A flat washer should be placed on next followed by a Belleville washer (convex side out, concave side against the flat washer).  The flat washers protect the soft metal surfaces of the post and the lug from the hard edges of the bolt head on the one side and the bellville washer on the other. 

275px-Belleville_washer.JPG
275px-Belleville_washer.JPG
The bellville washer provides equalized pressure all around the flat washer, unlike a split lock washer.  The Noalox is a conductive lubricant that enhances conductiveity and prevents oxidation of the conductive surfaces.  Bolts are tightend to a
Terminal Torque of 60 in./lbs.

 
NoAlox Joint Compound
http://www.evsource.com/tls_cabling_tools.php

Battery rack - front - by chance do you have any sketches of this 
indicating stock and lengths? 12/19/07 entry - "the steel bowed in the 
center leaving the center btry loose" - this is the steel plate piece 
shown in the 12/12/07 pic under the cow mat. Would a thicker piece of 
stock work better or an angle bolted/welded underneath?
 
Monte has a copy  of the front battery rack drawing.  I gave it to him while I was there.  If you need another let me know.  It is quite large.  In addition, there are pictures of the rack on October 4th and October 15tth.
 
This is what I said: "In the front rack is made of steel.  There is a flat piece of steel under
the mat to support it." When I ssaid "support it" I mean the mat not the steel. The purpose of the 1/8" x 3" x 26" flat steel is to prevent the mat from pushing through the large hole in the steel frame.  It is not welded because it was a last minute addition.  It is working fine, pressed in place by the weight of the batterries on the mat.  It certainly could be weled.  I would put it just where I have it, not underneath. 

http://www.evprogress.org/99%20Ranger_files/image180.jpg
It creates a perfectly flat surface because it is the same thickness as the angle at the edges,.

Table top - two pieces of acrylic - what thickness did you use, saw 
0.125" ?  Use any adhesive to keep the two sheets together? That is 
before adding the metal edges. 10/27-28/07 pics shows mounting of heat 
sink prior to edge mat'l.

 
I just measured the material I used.with a caliper.  It is .23 inches thick, nominally .25 or 1/4 inch.  I used no adhesive. Two pieces would be about a half inch.  The pictures are trial fit pictures, not final assembly.  The final insertion of the acrylic into the frame was on December 3.  Remember the acrylic must be removed for welding.  All photos prior to December 3rd are trial fits.  In many of the pictures the components are simply lying in place and not bolted.

11/19/07 - Remounting of hinges - use of inner tube - don't understand 
their placement. Is this between the table top frame and the hinge? 
10/30/07 pic seems to indicate hinge is on top of acrylic with bolts/
screws/rivets going through to metal. Is metal angle stock or flat? 
See pic 11/2/07 - What is that triangular piece that appears to be in 
the middle of the angle mounted to the fire wall, it has a hole in the 
middle?
You have to ignore some of this.  I wanted the table aluminum to be above chassis ground.  All my attempts failed.  In the end I removed all the rubber insulating material.
 
The 10/20 picture is a good one because it is unclutered by components.  You see three pieces of aluminum stock.  The one closest to the viewer is flat.  I have attached a picture that might help.

Frame rear.jpg
Frame rear.jpg

 
The little triange with the round nose is not essential.  Its purpose is to provide a resting place for the table top during installation.  Remember I am working alone.  It supports the table top untill the pins are inserted into the hinges.


Cheers,
Al Lococo

I went to Lowes yesterday and purchased the conduit material save on item you have listed. The list indicates two couplings, one Sch40 and one std PVC. I purchased on as I was unable to see where the second one is used. Let's see if I have the correct order. The female adapter fits down through the hole in the bed, followed by one 45 then a 90, then the straight long piece, the std. coupling, then by a 45 and a 90 up in the front motor compartment. So where is the second coupling fit it?

I guess I am not sure about the second adapter. I may have been considering it for the end of the conduit under the hood. When I made the parts list, I didn't consider how I used the parts, just what I purchased.

The key thing to remember here is the a 45 and a 90 are used on each end, and you have to shorten both 90 degree pieces. This whole thing is a force fit. There may be some trial and error.

I looked around the garage and found two pieces of conduit material. I have attached a picture of them. I believe the larger piece was cut from the front 90 degree piece on the narrow end of the curve (2 inches"). The short piece comes from the wide end of the rear 90 degree piece (7/8 inch). This is a pretty good guess, but it is a guess. Have them do some measurments of their own to verify. If it doesn't work the first time, do it over.

Curtis controller/heat sink - is there a paste req'd between the surfaces?

Yes, heat sink compound is absolutely required.

http://shop.willyselectronics.com/browse.cfm/4,7782.html

Battery connections - cable lug to btry post - 10/17/07 use 1-1/4" stainless bolts, still a good size? Use flat & lock washers? Are the connections assembled dry?

Assuming your batteries have the L terminal with 3/8 inch hole, you need 24 1-1/4" 5/16" bolts and 48 nuts. A flat washer should go between the bolt head and the lead post. the lug side of the post should be coated with noalox. The lug should be slid onto the bolt. A flat washer should be placed on next followed by a Belleville washer (convex side out, concave side against the flat washer). The flat washers protect the soft metal surfaces of the post and the lug from the hard edges of the bolt head on the one side and the bellville washer on the other. The bellville washer provides equalized pressure all around the flat washer, unlike a split lock washer. The Noalox is a conductive lubricant that enhances conductiveity and prevents oxidation of the conductive surfaces. Bolts are tightend to a Terminal Torque of 60 in./lbs.

NoAlox Joint Compound

http://www.evsource.com/tls_cabling_tools.php

Battery rack - front - by chance do you have any sketches of this indicating stock and lengths? 12/19/07 entry - "the steel bowed in the center leaving the center btry loose" - this is the steel plate piece shown in the 12/12/07 pic under the cow mat. Would a thicker piece of stock work better or an angle bolted/welded underneath?

Monte has a copy of the front battery rack drawing. I gave it to him while I was there. If you need another let me know. It is quite large. In addition, there are pictures of the rack on October 4th and October 15tth.

This is what I said: "In the front rack is made of steel. There is a flat piece of steel under the mat to support it." When I ssaid "support it" I mean the mat not the steel. The purpose of the 1/8" x 3" x 26" flat steel is to prevent the mat from pushing through the large hole in the steel frame. It is not welded because it was a last minute addition. It is working fine, pressed in place by the weight of the batterries on the mat. It certainly could be weled. I would put it just where I have it, not underneath. It creates a perfectly flat surface because it is the same thickness as the angle at the edges,.

Table top - two pieces of acrylic - what thickness did you use, saw 0.125" ? Use any adhesive to keep the two sheets together? That is before adding the metal edges. 10/27-28/07 pics shows mounting of heat sink prior to edge mat'l.

I just measured the material I used.with a caliper. It is .23 inches thick, nominally .25 or 1/4 inch. I used no adhesive. Two pieces would be about a half inch. The pictures are trial fit pictures, not final assembly. The final insertion of the acrylic into the frame was on December 3. Remember the acrylic must be removed for welding. All photos prior to December 3rd are trial fits. In many of the pictures the components are simply lying in place and not bolted.

11/19/07 - Remounting of hinges - use of inner tube - don't understand their placement. Is this between the table top frame and the hinge? 10/30/07 pic seems to indicate hinge is on top of acrylic with bolts/ screws/rivets going through to metal. Is metal angle stock or flat? See pic 11/2/07 - What is that triangular piece that appears to be in the middle of the angle mounted to the fire wall, it has a hole in the middle?

You have to ignore some of this. I wanted the table aluminum to be above chassis ground. All my attempts failed. In the end I removed all the rubber insulating material.

The 10/20 picture is a good one because it is unclutered by components. You see three pieces of aluminumstock. The one closest to the viewer is flat. I have attached a picture that might help.

The little triange with the round nose is not essential. Its purpose is to provide a resting place for the table top during installation. Remember I am working alone. It supports the table top untill the pins are inserted into the hinges.

Walt 10/19


Let me start by stating my appreciating your support. I have started a cross index, subject matter vs date in the diary for my quick reference. I dislike attempting to remember where is saw information, thumbing through page after page.

I went to Lowes yesterday and purchased the conduit material save on item you have listed. The list indicates two couplings, one Sch40 and one std PVC. I purchased on as I was unable to see where the second one is used. Let's see if I have the correct order. The female adapter fits down through the hole in the bed, followed by one 45 then a 90, then the straight long piece, the std. coupling, then by a 45 and a 90 up in the front motor compartment. So where is the second coupling fit it?

Curtis controller/heat sink - is there a paste req'd between the surfaces?

Battery connections - cable lug to btry post - 10/17/07 use 1-1/4" stainless bolts, still a good size? Use flat & lock washers? Are the connections assembled dry?

Battery rack - front - by chance do you have any sketches of this indicating stock and lengths? 12/19/07 entry - "the steel bowed in the center leaving the center btry loose" - this is the steel plate piece shown in the 12/12/07 pic under the cow mat. Would a thicker piece of stock work better or an angle bolted/welded underneath?

Table top - two pieces of acrylic - what thickness did you use, saw 0.125" ? Use any adhesive to keep the two sheets together? That is before adding the metal edges. 10/27-28/07 pics shows mounting of heat sink prior to edge mat'l.

11/19/07 - Remounting of hinges - use of inner tube - don't understand their placement. Is this between the table top frame and the hinge? 10/30/07 pic seems to indicate hinge is on top of acrylic with bolts/ screws/rivets going through to metal. Is metal angle stock or flat? See pic 11/2/07 - What is that triangular piece that appears to be in the middle of the angle mounted to the fire wall, it has a hole in the middle?

Walt 10/19


Walt,

The picture you are looking at is a product purchased at Walmart for $19.00. It is used as a mat under a tread mill. I cut it up and used it to cover the battery terminals.

Tractor Supply is a chain of farm supply stores. They have a product called a stall mat which is about 3/4" thick which I used under the batteries. It is much thicker than what is pictured in the photo you have sent me.

In the front, the rack is made of steel. There is a flat piece of steel under the mat to support it. The batteries are place on top of it. It is cut and placed so that the battery handles hang over the edge of the mat.

In the rear, the mat is under both the batteries and the hold down aluminum frame.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


Your pic P1010034.jpg, showing


the "rubber" mat, is that the same as the"stall mat" from Farm Supply? If so from the 4 X 6 piece? Walt 10/17


In November we should be really running. The adapter assembly s/b in by the end of this month. Controller is 4 weeks from now, or the week on 11/10. Walt 11/17


Waalt, I ordered. 20 feet of red 2/0 cable and 30 feet of black 2/0 cable with not a lot left over when done.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


I have ordered all of the big items. Don't have delivery dates on them. Anticipate that the adapter will be in by the end of next week at the earliest, he has cashed the check, by the end of the month the latest. Anticipate that following that, the pace should pick up.

If Olive's health picks up we are heading north for Thanksgiving to Grand Rapids for a week. I would anticipate we would have the major part of the work completed by then. That said, hoping for no major delays in part acquisition. I will get a heads up today. Walt 10/17


Walt,

That's great. If I were doing this again, I think I would try to get the pilot shaft inside the motor shaft. It makes the measurements more critical, but would help to minimize vibration. I think I would put a small amount of GE Silicone at the bottom of the motor shaft hole before inserting the transmission pilot shaft. This might help dampen vibration from the loose fitting metal on metal surfaces and tighten things up a bit. It should work since both shafts always turn together.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


I measured the pilot shaft from the transmission and it appears to 0.60" in diameter. I was getting 0.59 more often than 0.60. Approximately 0.75" deep up to the beginning of the spline, (not the most accurate measurement). According to NetGain's drwg (see below) of the WarP 9", the inside diameter of the shaft is 0.689/0.687. So, there appears to be an opportunity to insert the pilot shaft into the motor shaft recess as you have suggested.

Motor Shaft.jpg

Photo of the Serial number.

MVC-010SMTR Serial Num.jpg

The only item to report is on Friday 10/3, they removed the gas tank and the clutch disk. The clutch disk was sent via UPS to Wayne Alexander,Walton, KS, this morning. Should arrive there on Friday, 10/10/08. Wayne estimated 2 to 3 weeks turnaround. I will be ordering much of the balance of equipment this week. There is a Farm Supply store not too far from Monte's school. Walt 10/6


Walt,

Nice picture. Step 5 affectss things related, but not shown. The master cylinder is operated by a rod that goes through the fire wall from the pedal to the master cylinder.

Remove hydraulic line between master cylinder and the clutch slave cylinder from the clutch slave cylinder, (Number five in your drawing, tricky) first. There is a special tool for this. Push the white plastic cylinder twards the transmission while pulling on the hydraulic line. Not easy, but it can be done. If you have to you can cut the hydraulic line.

Be careful not to disturb the speedometer wires. Remove slave cylinder assembly from transmission drive shaft.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


In that the instructions must be given to the crew, want to be sure it is correct. Following all of this will be the instructions that you sent yesterday for installing the modified clutch disk, etc. Walt. 10/5

From the EXISTING clutch assembly:
1) Remove and discard flywheel (#1 in drwg)
2) Remove and SAVE clutch disk (#3 in drwg)
3) Remove and discard clutch pressure plate (#4 in drwg)
4) Remove and discard clutch slave cylinder, clutch release hub & bearing (#5 in drwg)
Walt 10/4


Clutch assembly.jpg
Walt,

In the ICE, the flange on the crank attaches to the flywheel . The clutch asembly is attached to the opposite side of the flywheel. This assembly contains the clutch disk which has the friction sufrace and at the center the female spline which slide on and off the male spline on the Because the clutch disk moves on and off the the male spline on the transmission shaft, the pilot shaft at the motor side of the male transmission spline keeps the transmission shaft from wobbling when the clutch is disengaged.

Now all of this is prologue and if it is confusing it can be ignored.
Assembly drwg.jpg
The clutch disk is retained.

They flywhell with its pilot surfase is discarded. As is all the rest of the clutch assembly with the exception of the clutch disk because, it has the female spine we are going to need.

Now we don't need the friction surface on the clutch disk because it will be engaged full time. It nolonger slides off when you depress the clutch, because we remove everything related to the clutch except the cluch disk.

The remaining problem is how to attach the center portion of the clutch disk to the electric motor? Tjis what the coupler does. It has a keyed hole on one side that slides onto the electric motor shaft which is also keyed. On the other side we bolt the clutch disk with the friction surfaces removed. this two part assembly has a keyed hole on one side and a female sline on the other.

The coupler, a two part assembly could be machined with a keyed hole on one side and a female spline on the other and machine from steel. This would eliminate the need for the clutch disk.

So the design using the clutch disk is an expediant. It simplifies the machining of the coupler. The use of the clutch disk may be confusing because therre is no longer a clutch. The clutch disk is always engauged minimising the need for a pilot shaft and a pilot bearing. The pilot shaft is now the male spline on the transmission shaft and the pilot bearing surface is the female spline on the one time clutch, now coupleer assembly. The two are alwys engaged turning or together, no slipage as when the ICE turns but the transmission shaft is motionless or they are static together.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


CLARIFICATION: you use the words 'The clutch plate'' do you mean the "clutch disc? In the diagram #3 is CLUTCH DISC; #4 is CLUTCH PRESSURE PLATE. hen do you mean to reattach the CLUTCH DISC to the CLUTCH PRESSURE PLATE? Walt 10/4


Just reread your entry on this, let's see if I now understand. In your section entitled "motor mount", you stat "this a fabricated assembly that consists of two parts, the coupler and the spline from the clutch friction plate. The cllutch plate is cut down to about a 9-inch diameter by cutting off the friction surfaces. The clutch plate with the spline at the center is bolted to the custom machined coupler." I see now as the blind man said! It just sank in what all of that meant! As they used to say at the UofIll., rhet as writ. Interpreted means read it until you understand. Please confirm that I am now on the correct track. I studying the clutch assembly now, having the shop manual helps. Walt 10/4


on the connection of the motor to the transmission. I don't understand why the clutch disk is kept in operation. I thought that the coupler would be attached to the motor shaft on one end and the other to the shat in the transmission. As I interpret the drawings, there is a transmission input shaft pilot bearing in the flywheel. If the flywheel/ring gear are discarded, what replaces that bearing if anything? Is the clutch pressure plate retained? I recall that you lost a spring from the clutch disk. Walt 10/4


today we removed the ICE... contact Holtz Welding Repair & Fabricating to see if they can make the adaptor kit and how much Walt 9/29


MVC-003S.jpg MVC-004S.jpg

They took measurements yesterday and today began the removal of the ICE. Walt 9/26


Local Harbor Freight Tools has a flyer in today's mail 5000 lbs. capacity adjustable tow bar $47.99. Regularly 69.99. Also there is a Tractor Supply store very near Ted's house. Walt 9/23


Roger. The truck will be delivered this coming Thursday, 9/25. Walt 9/23


Walt,

I have no experience to give you here, but there is a sensor on the front of the engine for this. Monte will know how to save this connection. I don't know if the sender can be adapted to the front shaft on the motor, but something should be able to worked out.

Talk to Monte and his crew to see what they say. The three key points are the wiring and the sender and adapting it to the motor.

Let me know what they think the problems are that they can't handle and I will try to help. Whatever they do with the front shaft, has to be compatible with the Air Conditioning Compressor pulley unless you go to an electric compressor.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


You noted that EP3 has a tach. How does one go about adapting it to the WarP motor? Any hints? Walt 9/23


Trip home safe? Picked up motor this a.m. 3Hr trip one way, arrived there at 8 a.m. Only Audrey was there, however she and I dragged the crate out to the car and lifted it up. I was out of there in ten minutes top. No one else was there. There is a for sale sign just as you enter the "estate". What a dump! I was deprived of a look at the shop! Maybe next time is what I told her. Walt 9/20


I decided to get in gear by picking up the motor by driving over to Ft. Pierce this coming Saturday, 9/20. I believe that will get things going. Look forward to tomorrow. Walt 9/16


Walt, Picking up motor this Saturday if Ft. Pierce from Grassroots. Walt 9/16


Nothing set in concrete, however, Al wants to get there early a.m. So anticipate that we will get there about 9 to 9:30. The main focus is to show Monte and crew that there is indeed a converted Ford Ranger and what it looks like. Allow them to ask any questions. It's Al's way of supporting this particular conversion and conversions in general. I anticipate that it will conclude prior to noon. I believe that their lunch period begins about 11:30. Walt 9/15

On Sep 1

5, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Edward Ellyatt wrote: > What activities are you planning for Thursday? I can get off work > about noon. When are you going to High Tech Central? TED


Still searching.

I located a transmission cross member here locally, however, they want $350.00 for it and a couple of days to get it off the frame. I called back twice to make sure he wasn't pricing a used transmission. You paid $10. for yours? I recall telling you that I saw somebody selling these things, believe that it was on eBay. See below. I found one posting where they made their own.

Shopping results for transmission cross member,ford ranger 1973-1979 Ford Truck Manual Transmission ... $50.62 - eBay

Ford Ranger Transmission Ford Ranger Transmission Description: Just try to find this cross member for any less than $49.99. This cross member replaces the existing one that hangs down and drags everything. It just bolts in place up inside the frame rails. Very simple. I build mine out of 1/2" thick CR steel, unlike the other companies that are making them out of 3/8" and even 1/4". Fits 1983-1997 trucks only!

Walt 9/15


I obtained a used a rear manual transmission crosssmember support from a 99 ranger at the junk yard for a reasonable price, I think it was $10. You may or may not be able to duplicate this price.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


Where did you obtain the transmission cross member that you modified to support the front end? Walt 9/8


Walt,

You are correct, I am using #10 wire and 20 amp plugs and receptacles everywhere between the circuit breaker box and the charger. Things still get warm at times.

Although opportunity charging will be more difficult, I believe 220 volt charger is a good idea. With my supplier, at least, you need to ask for the off board charger, I believe. Although I have no experience with this, since I asked for the onboard charger and received the 120 volt version.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


I should add that the plan is 220V, 20 amps??

Do I recall you writing that you sensed a temp. problem in your charging cord and were going to change from 12 to 10 gauge? Walt 9/8


Do I recall you writing that you sensed a temp. problem in your charging cord and were going to change from 12 to 10 gauge? Walt 9/8


Walt,

This very interesting, but it draws 50 amps. My system is 30 amps. It might work without an upgrad if you don't do a lot of steering and maybe switch it off when you don't need it.

Very nice package. Naybe I should by one.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


a969_1.JPG

EVER SEE THIS? power-steering-pump-Hot-rod-electric Walt 9/7


Walt,

If you check the milage log you will wee amp hour data gathered from the new Batman meter. I am using about 29 amp hours for 10 miles.

I am not at all confident in my battery design, but for now I plan to stick with it. Certainly, when the batteries were new their performance was outstanding in both speed, acceleration and range. I've forgotten what your range requirement is. My average trip is 15 miles. We are using AGM batteries, which is state of the art Lead acid technology. We have 200 ah capacity. Equalizers and a three stage charger. AGM's have a very low internal resistance and should be able to provide high current delivery for acceleration.

Keep in mind that through all my troubles I have been using the car.

I think the problem is 12 batteries from five different dates and a poor charging algorithm. I'm hoping, perhaps in vain, that 12 matched East Penn batteries will perform as expected, but I don't know.

As far as your graphs go, they are interesting. The first one, voltage drop, is not useful because the trip lengths are different. The ups and downs are a function of trip distance and not related to battery performance. This might be interesting if you sort by trip length and graph the points in groups for different distances.

the drop per mile is more useful. I think it is more a function of my habits. In the beginning I was under charging due to bad labeling and mismatched batteries. Later on I changed the charge routine and the weather changed, it got hotter. The charger has temperature compensation and drops the charge voltage as temperature rises, contributing to under charging.

In the end I started waiting until midnight to start the charge. This allows the equalizers to do their thing so that the charge starts with the batteries all at the same level. Important when you have mismatched batteries. It also lets the batteries cool as the ambient temperature drops.

The watts per mile may reflect improvements in my driving habits.

For you, you are faced with a five thousand dollar experiment. It doesn't matter who you are, batteries are a problem. More experienced people have better luck. There is not a lot of experience with AGM in general and 4D format AGMs in particular. So we can do the math and go on faith.

Cheers,
Al Lococo


Looking for critique here. PERFORMANCE.dar I took your data, Feb through April, and played with it. I was curious what it indicated. For the WATT calculation I multiplied the voltage drop X 200 AH (col E). Col F - watts/mile is straight fwd. It appears that about mid-July, things started to change. Does any of this make sense? Walt 9/1


Added calculation of % weight on each axle to table. Though I guessed at the conversion figures, it points out that the distribution of wt. is "out of kilter. That should be avoided if possible. It is something that we will work on. Monte & I discussed using battery  boxes and tilting the rear bed for access. At the moment I don't know how much latitude that buys but will check it out. Feel free to comment, please. Walt 8/31

 

 

Doing a little home work on weight. I haven't removed the spare tire 
as of yet. I am probably going to have to replace the tires early on. 
Will be looking for low friction type, or "used"? That sounds like WW2 
talk! Comments? Walt 8/30

 

 

 

Results are "steer axle" = 2040 lbs;

drive axle = 1400 lbs;

gross wt.  = 3440
that is without me me in inside and just under 1/4 tank of gas. I am  some
what surprised at the distribution, though no background to comment.
They have a split scale, so straddling it was easy. Total cost $8.50. Walt 8/29

 

 

Let's make it the EPT3! Yes, you may do the post, and THANKS!. I am searching for ideas on how to give proper credit to Monte and his crew for the effort that they are going to be putting forth. Not only their ideas and labor but the schools facility. If done right, the school will get proper credit and herald in a new era for them.

Perhaps, if you have thoughts on this I would appreciated them.

Where did you pick up the gear ratios for your vehicle. I've looked in the shop manuals (yes, I bought the 2001 version) and as of yet to find them.

There is a tag on the differential indicating which rear end you have.

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/Axles.html

 

Check here for transmission ratios.

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/ManualTransmission.html

 

I used Ranger Station and an ALLData subscription for my specs.

http://www.alldata.com/vehicle_owner/index.jsp

Again the front Steer Axle = 2040 lbs; Drive Axle = 1400 lbs; Gross

Weight = 3440 lbs Your record indicates approximately 508 lbs net change in wt. Did you actually remove the liner, spare and hitch? How did you get the liner out as it appears to be semi-permanent? You use the vehicle w/o a spare? The title indicates 3388 lbs. with the difference to 3440 could be primarily the gas. Just under 1/4 tank would equate to between 3 and 4 gals. Close enough for govt. work.

Lots of good questions. I do drive without a spare. I did remove the hitch receiver and the ball on the bumper. Not only did I remove the spare tire, I also removed the spare tire hanger. To get the liner out just remove the screws. They go into lags in the anchor points in each corner of the box, if yours is like mine. Ehrn you remove the box to get the ggas tank and exhaust sytem out , remove the spare tire hardware.

Front GAWR = 2510LB AND REAR GAWR = 2600 LB. OR 5110 LB TOTAL. THING FOR SURE, when finished it will be weighed again. I'm looking at your sticker vs mine, wonder why the difference in the front GAWR yours 2400 and mine 2510 as each came with 6 cyl. engine.

I'm looking for background info on the relationship of energy on board to consumption. We carry 2400 Ahr in 12 btrys., restricting usage to 60% SOC = 1440 AHr, leaving 960 for traveling. Or 50% SOC would leave 1200 for travel. What and where is data or approximation as to how far this will carry a vehicle in moderate usage. Moderate in your terms of the type of usage you use. How do I get to how far that might get me? Walt 8/29

 

You should figure about 1 mile for every 20 pounds of lead. The battery should be one third of total weight.

This tells you hw far you can go if you are will to go to 100% DOD or zero SOC. My design goes about 70 miles.

At 50% DOD it is 35 miles.

 

Just got insurance coverage on the Ranger, piggy backed on Explorer, an additional $55.70. Found it hard to believe!
Also, just called Monte Hamsher to get things going with the school. Good News and we are off to a good start. Walt 8/4

 


Created by Al Lococo